America is now in a "cold" Civil War as Trump becomes more violent, authoritarian, and conspiratorial, wielding near complete control over his MAGA base and a complicit GOP.
Brilliant, totally engrossing conversation and the enduring historical parallels to the Civil War. The terrifying questions: how does it end? When does it end?
The professor gives a great description of the current meaning of the confederate flag. It’s not a nostalgia for the old south per se, but a current symbol of the movement against civil rights. Anyone my age grew up watching the Dukes of Hazzard, with the confederate flag painted on top of their car, the General Lee.
Good ol boys, good ol white boys. A symbol of white supremacy on Saturday mornings, for all us kids to absorb and normalize.
Great podcast. I was hoping for an easy answer to the question when the madness would end. The Professor’s answer is what I feared it would be. The reign of terror will only end when the pain begins. And it will soon. Farmers, who voted overwhelmingly for Trump, will feel the pain because their markets are gone. Retired folks will start missing their social security checks. Children will lose their health insurance. RFK will bungle the bird flu pandemic. FEMA will botch the next disaster. NOAH will not be able to predict the next hurricane. Medicare won’t work because of how Elon the dick has taken a chain saw to the program. The veterans administration where I get my care will be hollowed out.
All of this is intentional. The oligarchs and corporate pigs will say government doesn’t work. We must privatize. I desperately hope that Americans by then will realize the game is rigged and will revolt. Our reaction to the collapse will determine our future.
Wait until children are faced with providing financial support to their elders. Any cutbacks to social security, Medicare and/or Medicaid will adversely effect the finances of the following generations and limit the legacies passed down to them.
Interesting, in the communities I walk in as an African American retired physician who watched the decimation of the health care system by corporate America, we have used the term Reconstruction 2.0 for the past decade. Perhaps it is a new war for some segments of the country.
Ain’t nobody going to win this …. It will be a complete mess. But we have to keep Trumphuk and Muskalini from implementing the Heritage master plan for the White Male Nationalist Oligarchy. Let’s face it with racist Musk bringing his “empathy” from white South Africa in cahoots with the Horrible Heritage Heretics and the ultra maga right wingers a minority of racists are effecting a coup that will destroy our democracy; criminalize free speech; destroy our economy while enforcing discriminatory policies and linking the US to the venal dictatorships in Russia, Hungary, North Korea, and abandoning NATO and the Ukraine.
If we don’t stand up now we will be sucked into a vortex of violence that will tear the country apart. My plea is get together and oppose this cabal now.
i don’t think so. you may have his extreme fringe followers and low iq people who don’t realize they’re being manipulated and fall for everything, but when looking at the rising prices and our liberties and programs getting gutted by billionaires, most americans are starting to wake up to reality, which is that this is actually a class struggle, this division is manufactured, and neither side of the government represents the people and are simply trying to fuck us for profit. i think if anything, we’ll have a new revolution of sorts.
Yes, there were people who were concerned with the price of eggs. Trump mentioned it. But he ran on sticking it to his those who went after him, and, by definition, MAGA. Trump ran on racism, xenophobia, misogyny. He ran against cultural issues, mainly DEI, LBGTQ, trans people, and other minorities. And the xenophobia was whipping up his base and base-adjacent (most Republicans) against immigrants. Trump ran on hate, fear, and being macho. And that's what the people who actually voted wanted, regardless of what they said. And it wasn't enough to push the more than 1/3 of people who didn't vote.
I'm not sure how to even listen to this podcast. As a Black man, we know that damn war never really ended and we're still being terrorized & traumatized by those kinds of people. Their denials don't erase what we experience. I find it rich that white men talk about these things in such a detached manner. Of course they're detached. They're not targeted (or oppressed) and can be relaxed as can be about it. Again, I have mixed feelings about this one.
I’d love to see you interview author Stephen Marche, “The Next Civil War”. An excellent current looks at the force-multipliers at work in the US leading toward sectarian violence.
Brilliant, totally engrossing conversation and the enduring historical parallels to the Civil War. The terrifying questions: how does it end? When does it end?
The professor gives a great description of the current meaning of the confederate flag. It’s not a nostalgia for the old south per se, but a current symbol of the movement against civil rights. Anyone my age grew up watching the Dukes of Hazzard, with the confederate flag painted on top of their car, the General Lee.
Good ol boys, good ol white boys. A symbol of white supremacy on Saturday mornings, for all us kids to absorb and normalize.
Yeah I used to watch that show here in England when I was a kid. Disturbing how such blatantly racist propaganda could be accepted, even back then.
Fantastic conversation. Thanks for having Prof. Vorenberg on.
I don’t expect a war. We will protest in the streets. We expect to be shot there.
https://hotbuttons.substack.com/p/alien-enemies-act-of-1798-invoked?r=3m1bs
You sound very positive!😀
Better than you criticizing him. 🙄
Great podcast. I was hoping for an easy answer to the question when the madness would end. The Professor’s answer is what I feared it would be. The reign of terror will only end when the pain begins. And it will soon. Farmers, who voted overwhelmingly for Trump, will feel the pain because their markets are gone. Retired folks will start missing their social security checks. Children will lose their health insurance. RFK will bungle the bird flu pandemic. FEMA will botch the next disaster. NOAH will not be able to predict the next hurricane. Medicare won’t work because of how Elon the dick has taken a chain saw to the program. The veterans administration where I get my care will be hollowed out.
All of this is intentional. The oligarchs and corporate pigs will say government doesn’t work. We must privatize. I desperately hope that Americans by then will realize the game is rigged and will revolt. Our reaction to the collapse will determine our future.
Wait until children are faced with providing financial support to their elders. Any cutbacks to social security, Medicare and/or Medicaid will adversely effect the finances of the following generations and limit the legacies passed down to them.
Good point. At that time we will all be eating Kibbles and Bits.
Drugs are bad for you.
maybe we can split in half and let the magas do their authoritarian thing and us others can join canada as a democracy...
where do I sign up?
Interesting, in the communities I walk in as an African American retired physician who watched the decimation of the health care system by corporate America, we have used the term Reconstruction 2.0 for the past decade. Perhaps it is a new war for some segments of the country.
Ain’t nobody going to win this …. It will be a complete mess. But we have to keep Trumphuk and Muskalini from implementing the Heritage master plan for the White Male Nationalist Oligarchy. Let’s face it with racist Musk bringing his “empathy” from white South Africa in cahoots with the Horrible Heritage Heretics and the ultra maga right wingers a minority of racists are effecting a coup that will destroy our democracy; criminalize free speech; destroy our economy while enforcing discriminatory policies and linking the US to the venal dictatorships in Russia, Hungary, North Korea, and abandoning NATO and the Ukraine.
If we don’t stand up now we will be sucked into a vortex of violence that will tear the country apart. My plea is get together and oppose this cabal now.
i don’t think so. you may have his extreme fringe followers and low iq people who don’t realize they’re being manipulated and fall for everything, but when looking at the rising prices and our liberties and programs getting gutted by billionaires, most americans are starting to wake up to reality, which is that this is actually a class struggle, this division is manufactured, and neither side of the government represents the people and are simply trying to fuck us for profit. i think if anything, we’ll have a new revolution of sorts.
If the war goes hot, hopefully when the dust clears we can finally have a clean slate to build the country that we should have had.
Yes, there were people who were concerned with the price of eggs. Trump mentioned it. But he ran on sticking it to his those who went after him, and, by definition, MAGA. Trump ran on racism, xenophobia, misogyny. He ran against cultural issues, mainly DEI, LBGTQ, trans people, and other minorities. And the xenophobia was whipping up his base and base-adjacent (most Republicans) against immigrants. Trump ran on hate, fear, and being macho. And that's what the people who actually voted wanted, regardless of what they said. And it wasn't enough to push the more than 1/3 of people who didn't vote.
they’ve replaced the american flag on all government websites, with the 9 star Confederate Flag. Soooooo, yes Civil War II
Do you have an example link?
The border is closed.
Illegals are being sent home.
We have only two genders again.
Government waste is being eliminated.
And wealth is being restored.
But instead of celebrations in the streets people are angry, protesting, and wanting to start a civil war.
None of this makes any sense.
I'm not sure how to even listen to this podcast. As a Black man, we know that damn war never really ended and we're still being terrorized & traumatized by those kinds of people. Their denials don't erase what we experience. I find it rich that white men talk about these things in such a detached manner. Of course they're detached. They're not targeted (or oppressed) and can be relaxed as can be about it. Again, I have mixed feelings about this one.
I’d love to see you interview author Stephen Marche, “The Next Civil War”. An excellent current looks at the force-multipliers at work in the US leading toward sectarian violence.
Hi Michael! Elizabeth Leonard here. So great to hear you with all your wisdom in this interview! Well done!!