I’m confused why he would stop it? It’s happening exactly as the US government wants to happen. Just like in Ukraine this evolved quickly into a proxy war. It’s much cheaper and more convenient to genocide Arabs through a client state than get American boots on the ground. If you have any question about it look what is happening now in Lebanon. Biden and Kamala haven’t even uttered a single word of compassion for the almost 3,000 innocent civilians murdered by IOF.
You know a vote for Trump would be so much worse for Palestine. Netanyahu is escalating right now to help Trump win in November. It is politically hazardous pre-election for Kamala Harris to antagonise the warmongers too much. This is a sad reality. Kamala has signalled what she thinks of them. She will have so much more ability to go toe to toe with Netanyahu once she defeats fascism at home. Voters who wish Biden was doing more and Harris was saying more need to be politically savvy enough to recognise this harsh reality and get her elected. If you think things couldn't be worse think again. Trump and Netanyahu are kindred spirits. Evil spirits. Arab Voters who vote for Trump rather than Harris because they are missed off with Biden are abandoning Palestine to a holocaust of fascism. Palestine's only hope lies with Kamala Harris. Give her time. Let her win.
So, it isn't clear that Trump would be worse on Palestine. But no question he'd be as bad, and I'm hoping against hope that Kamala might be a bit better than Biden.
And he says he'll bring out the tanks to put down protests. With Kamala, at least we can still protest. She'll ignore us, but at least she won't shoot us.
More like a vote for Trump, who is an Islamophobe and would like nothing better than to kill every Palestinian and turn Gaza into rubble--with the exception of beach-front property along the seaside. And Bibi wants Trump to win.
That's true but no more than would be a vote for Trump.
The Israeli / Palestinian conflict is not about a difference between Harris and Trump but about a position of US administrations ever since the creation of Israel by partitioning of Palestine into areas determined by the British, Germans, French and US.
I wrote to both POTUS and the VP and said, effectively, the same thing, though I doubt as articulately. - Of course, I've had no response and nor did I expect one. I very much doubt my correspondence has been seen by other than a lowly underling, if at all.
I had great hopes that the 'era' of Trumpism was over when Biden was finally elected and the immediate aftermath of election denial settled at least moderately. That hope was very quickly lost.
I had a similar hope when Biden decided not to be stubborn and allow a peaceful transfer for nomination to Harris. That hope was very quickly also lost, for she has failed to prevent arms shipments to Israel and, presumably, also been supportive of sending a carrier group to the area and other military actions by the USA.
Undoubtedly - as many apologists for non-action keep pointing out to me - the administration is under heavy pressure from Zionist lobby groups, wealthy Jewish organisations and businesses as well as misguided individuals and groups who, either because of the massive sympathy for Jews engendered by their treatment in Europe during the 1930's and 1940's or belief in the lies of zionist propaganda or their suspicion of and dislike of Muslims, consider that the administration has no choice but to defend Israel to the hilt.
It isn't true. Nor is it even good for Israel.
The continued defense or ignoring of Israeli perfidious persecution and holding of Palestinians in the occupied territories for several decades does the US or other nations acting in that way, any credit. The US use of its Veto at the UN and failure to support actions to halt weapons supply and other support for Israel not only reduces the US's own credibility but demeans the status of the United Nations and its associated bodies.
The fact is that if this position continues, the US will be seen to be as bad as other autocratic and dictatorial regimes and war mongering nations who seek to terrorise and persecute ethnicities, religions or ideologies which they dislike.
Already the US, by its actions, is complicit in the crimes against humanity committed by Israel. Under US laws, if an individual aids and abets murder then that individual is considered as guilty as the individual directly committed the killing. Surely the US actions in supplying the very weapons used in the scorched earth actions of Israel and the killing of over 40,000 Palestinians and injuring, (often maiming) of over 100,000 Palestinians as well as the displacement of over a million residents of Gaza, makes it as guilty for these crimes as Israel - under its own logic.
The reality is that Biden could have stopped this.
The reality is that Harris could stop it if elected.
The reality is that both should be demanding its end now - no, not endless window-dressing visits and meetings but a DEMAND and ORDER if you will.
That demand should be accompanied and made real by the immediate withdrawal of US forces from the area, absolutely no further financial or military aid to Israel and the arrest of Netanyahu for crimes against humanity.
Israel ought also be forced to fund the rebuilding of Gaza, complete withdrawal from all occupied territories and adherence to the declarations of the United Nations and its associated bodies, particularly the ICC and the ICJ
If Harris and the Democrats want to be sure of election in November then this is what they need to do. The alternative is a Trump presidency which will ensure an even worse World order and even more abominable treatment without recourse for probably millions of disadvantaged and already persecuted populations.
Jo Biden and Kamala Harris can yet redeem themselves and preserve a positive legacy - but the time has almost run out.
I am embarrassed to be a citizen of the US because it does such horrid things overseas these days! But can Netanyahu stop it? Yes. Can Harris make Netanyahu stop--yes--absolutely yes! She is lying to Americans! Americans hate being lied to! She may win just because so many fear Trump will get in. That is not a good enough reason for me!
You are right that almost certainly Biden could stop Netanyahu. Certainly, immediately stopping any arms shipments or funding support, as well as withdrawing US forces from the region and no longer defending Israel, would very likely increase pressure on Netanyah considerably.
However, Netanyahu consistently states that Israel will continue the war even if it has to do it without external support. Whether it is capable of doing so, I don't know but I suspect that its chances would be severely limited, particularly if Iran and others increased their opposition.
As for your condemnation of Harris - it is unreasonable. As VP she cannot 'stop' the war. If elected she may be able to do as I've just suggested that Biden can do now. I don't believe that she is telling lies but simply stating what is true of the state of affairs in the US political system.
To suggest that she will win the election "just because so many fear Trump will get in" is disingenuous. There are many issues that concern US voters and a very clear difference in the approach to these of Trump and Harris. This is fact, not assumption. It is also why many will vote for Harris, though no-one yet can say with certainty who will actually win.
The reality is that the dominant ethos of US society and governmental policy, whether left or right, Republican or Democrat, is based on capitalism, materialism, profit over people and military supremacy that extends to control in as much of the World as is possible. As long as that ethos exists - and many ordinary Americans are conditioned into supporting it - there will be little likelihood of 'people before profit' or human care and compassion taking precedence over 'strategic pragmatism' and feeding the coffers of wealthy corporations and individuals.
So, when people such as yourself - and there are many - choose to denigrate and attack people such as myself, who understand and oppose the falsity, immorality and corruption of politics and politicians, you simply play into the hands of precisely those you oppose.
I, and those such as I, are not the enemy. I am as incensed, disturbed, alienated and angry about the genocidal atrocities being committed by Israel as are you. However, if we choose to argue among ourselves by failing to listen and understand and seeking to understand where and why we are not meeting one another, then we weaken our own stance and our chance that others will see the merit of our arguments.
So, I urge you to take a more considered and informed view of what others say and write and of the historical and contextual factors that have brought us here.
That's exactly as I called it a while back - an inconvenient truth. Those of us who have been following Middle Eastern affairs, way before October 7th, 2023, knew that Bibi's rhetoric about defeating Hamas, was not the endgame. There are deep, dark ideological differences that manifest, ingrained in hatred... but for f*k's sake don't dare to mention the words genocide, apartheid or war crimes, or you're immediately dismissed as being anti-Semitic. I'm angry, frustrated and feeling complicit that we're not doing enough to stop this inhumane madness. 😢🤬😡
I am starting to wonder if Biden also wants Israel to go to war with Iran. It may be a little too convenient for Biden to be able to let Bibi do the dirty work for him and just keep saying, 'but I've told him he needs to be much more careful with civilian casualties!' Meaningless words at this point. How much longer till we are pulled into their forever war, in the name of terrorism.
You know the neocon Dems/ Biden-Harris war criminal administration will never stop supporting Israel’s genocide in Gaza/West Bank and now Lebanon, but you will still vote for Kamala Harris, right? Your moral compass is broken, buddy.
No, that's false logic. On the basis of historical evidence, all US administrations since the creation of Israel have supported Israel, regardless of their ideological persuasion or any differences on other policy.
In the US, one doesn't have to vote so that may or may not be positive. It does mean that one can do what Ostriches don't, (despite the common belief), and stick your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening or, at least, you have no opinion about it.
However, the Israeli - Palestinian conflict is not the only issue affecting US citizens and there are vast differences on many issues between Harris and Trump, not least: abortion, women's rights generally, morality, equity, isolationism v collaboration, corporate excess and influence v people, and much more.
So, voting for one or the other becomes extremely important, particularly when it is almost certain, if not certain, that Trump will continue to defend Israel just as all other US administations have done since its foundation.
“There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must take it because conscience tells him it is right.” — MLK
Yes, However my comment had nothing to do with voting strategically nor whether or when chooses to be an activist. My point is that a vote for either candidate on the basis of the US support for Israel will not alter it, therefore one can best use the franchise to support a candidate who will make positive change in other critically important issues.
I agree, but that was my point in relation to Biden & Harris, not those claiming a legitimacy for not voting for them on one selected issue, when that issue will not change regardless of who is elected, though many other issues will.
That is debatable, though I'm in general agreement with it. However, this quote, as wise as it may be, is not relevant to the comment I made for choosing 'not to vote' for someone is, by definition, not a neutral stance as neither is, choosing to not vote at all - that is simply avoiding a moral obligation.
Did I say I was not going to vote? I am voting for Jill Stein and Butch Ware because they’re the only candidates who are anti-genocide, pro-Palestinian, pro-people (worldwide), and pro-planet. Go Greens! 💚
I don't think that I alleged that you were 'not going to vote'. Neither have I any issue with you or anyone else voting for someone other than Trump or Harris - though there the mathematics of electoral systems shows how that can often produce a result very different to what one may want.
I would welcome seeing Green parties the World over gain government but the reality of the way most of our electoral systems are structured means that, right now, probably the best possible result is for Greens to gain some form of 'balance of power' and ability to influence some legislation.
My comments in this thread, however, have been in relation to the original post which was focused on the ability or otherwise of the Biden administration's ability to stop the current conflict between Israel and Palestinians and their supporters.
Ok got it. But I want to remind you that the Biden-Harris administration did have leverage it could have used to stop Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza, the occupied West Bank, and now Lebanon. However, they’ve refused to use that leverage. If Biden and Harris had stopped providing weapons/ammunition to Netanyahu, Gallant, and the IOF, Israel wouldn’t have been able to undertake its mass murder operation. In other words, they wouldn’t have been able to annihilate the Palestinian people (and Lebanese people) without America’s active support/participation.
Zizi-You are so correct about this guy! He doesn't or she doesn't have any moral compass or any morals or values whatsoever! You know what they say? Republicans fall in line but Democrats have to fall in love! If we continue to support the NEOCONS we will all lose our minds eventually! They are definitely aligned to the military industrial complex! I hate to say it folks--voting for Kamal is voting for NEOCONS -- NEOCONS ARE BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, BAD FOR OUR HEALTH, and GOOD FOR GENOCIDE! So keep it up--more people will die. Keep supporting these jerks, and you will be ruined economically! Look at North Carolina and next Florida will be burned by the Neocons, after a Hurricane because bombs are more important than people! Good luck!
It is how some of us are. Of those who are, it also predominantly a result of conditioning by schooling, government policy, mainstream media reporting, zionist influence and propaganda, a created fear and dislike of Muslims and a culture of prejudice against any who differ from the fiction of 'White Superiority'.
I was just listening again to Ruha Benjamin commencement speech “Black faces in high places” which she goes exactly into this in our contemporary political context.
I know for a fact that I am a life-long Democrat, and that I will not be voting this fall for Kamala Harris this Fall! I know, I know! It is terrible, and we may get someone as horrid as Donald Trump in there, but I am so tired after 12 months of killing babies that I just couldn't justify voting for Hitler either! She is I suppose a little better than Trump, but she really doesn't give s shit about the environment either if she is allowing this genocide to continue like it is nothing! Don't tell me the US can't make Netanyahu stop! They can. She just doesn't want to!
Well, this is certainly one point of view - Jews have no right to live in Israel, which itself should not exist (...."Israel's occupation of Palestinian lands...."). The rhetoric about genocide might be projection - Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran all want to wipe Israel off the map.
OTOH, Netanyahu's a dick, the illegal settlements and Israeli actions in the West Bank should not have been tolerated by ANY US President (aid and arms should have been stopped), the response to Oct 7 was completely counter-productive (Israel needed to lean on prospective and real Arab government partners rather than bomb Gaza and kill so many people). War with Iran looks very possible - things are likely to get worse before they get better.
Of course, people who think Biden's failures here are terrible are going to be sorry if Trump is elected, because his rhetoric suggests that under a Trump Administration, he will support MORE bombing of Gaza (he thinks Jarad can develop Gazan beachfront property!) and probably even war with Iran.
After many years of earnest and devout work as an American foreign policy advisor, after serving on countless transnational corporate boards and investment councils, and after unusually intense introspection, I have at last arrived at a solution that I trust will be found in respectable circles to be quite laudable, if not altogether surprising. So let me judiciously advance “A Practical Policy,” which I expect will not be liable to the least objection, for easing the troubled situation of children in Palestine and Lebanon and beyond.
It is my well-reasoned suggestion that there be implemented a carefully regulated expansion of commercial trafficking in children worldwide — that is, the compassionate cannibalism of children and youth — closely monitored to ensure the dignity of all.
The time has long since come to officially support and expand the body parts trade, with its great potential of many corporate byproducts and fiscal derivatives heretofore unimagined. I have recently been advised by virtually every corporate and financial executive I’ve encountered throughout the American Empire that children of impoverished nations principally, though not solely, are to be understood in explicit terms as the next great global growth industry — children as a prolific cash crop.
Nope. Hamas can instantly stop this by turning over the hostages and surrendering. It's what a government must do for its people when it starts, then loses a war - since biblical times. Hitler stood “Strong", too, as his cities were reduced to the rubble we see in Gaza.
Hamas doesn't control West Bank which israel is attacking and occupying. Israel has now expanded the war to Lebanon, killing and displacing civilians. Bibi doesn't care about the hostages. If he did he'd accept the plan Biden proposed but that would mean ending the war and stepping down from power. These talking points no longer work, assuming they ever did.
They never did for they are and were ill considered and confused. In addition, they have never been real comment on the relative aspects, motives or intent for the war. Predominantly such comments are those of disrupters who have no valid opinion but simply like to disrupt and object rational discusson.
And Hamas doesn't give a damn about the West Bank. Bibi and his buttplugs are behaving like Nazis no question and that is indefensible and no question makes it very difficult to stand with Israel. Hamas doesn't want a 2 state solution. Hamas wants nothing less than Sharia Law From The River To The Sea. And Jews driven into said sea. And after that tomorrow the world as the Nazis used to say. Jews being occupiers and infidels are doubly cursed. Bibi will not step down but will Hamas? Not a mumbling word from you about that. There is no path to peace. There is no cease fire. A cease fire means nothing to Hamas except to break the cease fire at a time of their choosing. And make no mistake Hamas will never release all the hostages because they know damn well that if Israel has been coming down on them now with a ton of bricks it will be 100 tons if not for the hostages.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Hamas can "instantly stop this". On the contrary, Israel has demonstrated that it does not want to stop this but rather to escalate it as it has, in fact, already done.
The comparison of the Hamas action with Hitler's action is totally disingenuous.
Hamas was and is the legitimately elected government of the Palestinians and as they were and are living under occupation they have a right to take action to achieve their liberty. Their actions are thus no different from those of other groups such as the French underground, which fought and killed to get out from under Germany's occupation.
If your comparison has any validity it is the similarity between Hitler's actions and that of Netanyahu.
As Jonathan Swift said some 300 years ago: "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." Your assertions are simplistic and false and cannot be evidenced.
All it takes is an Iranian Nuclear Embargo, A Lebanese Financial Embargo and your people will stop killing themselves. Great idea, get Biden to embargo Lebanon and invade Iran.
Roger--I am simply stating that I actually vote my values, as I can see that you do not vote your values! You would be better off voting your values, if you really feel you hate people of color because you are supposing that if I am "civilized and reasonable" then I am okay--I am not okay! People are killing people senselessly still now as we sit here in Gaza and Lebanon! No, I am not okay, and the US government is killing my friends and family! You cannot justify it in any way shape or form! I will bet when you were a boy and had real values, you probably heard about the holocaust and freaked out as many did, as I did! I wondered who would ever vote for Hitler? I wondered how could anyone actually support Adolf Hitler? It was so hard for me to fathom about my world around me! Now I know that people like you measure it and justify death and murder because you and Kamala Harris both think and believe you are the good guy; you are not the good guys--Israel are also not the good guys! You are far from it! That is why our world is blowing up because people like you do nothing but pontificate about how you are doing good by voting for a Sell-out carpetbagging, NEOCON, genocidal maniac -- yes she said she would not change her Mid-East Policy! They also proved she was complicit in the Famine--how can you vote for this woman? At least admit to yourself you are exactly like the people who lived in Germany! I am sure in your "White Settler Colonizing" mind you accepts you are the good guy!
“We are not choosing between a greater evil and a lesser evil… We are confronting two destructive forces: one currently overseeing a genocide and another equally committed to continuing it. Both are determined to see it through. We call on Muslim-Americans and all those who stand firmly against genocide to vote for the Green Party in 2024.” — Abandon Harris
I'd like to compose a list of prominent scholars, doctors, lawyers, academics, political figures, scientists, actors, musicians... actually anyone with a public platform, who has and/or is speaking up against this genocide. Feel free to add. 🙂
I’m confused why he would stop it? It’s happening exactly as the US government wants to happen. Just like in Ukraine this evolved quickly into a proxy war. It’s much cheaper and more convenient to genocide Arabs through a client state than get American boots on the ground. If you have any question about it look what is happening now in Lebanon. Biden and Kamala haven’t even uttered a single word of compassion for the almost 3,000 innocent civilians murdered by IOF.
I so agree. Biden and the deep state are pulling the strings keeping this
Marinette show going. Severe their fingers to stop this sh*t show. Our whole government needs a reboot. They are the deplorables
I'm not sure there's anything Biden can do to deter Netanyahu, but he should at least try by stopping all weapons going to Israel.
As it stands now a vote for Kamala is a vote for genocide.
A vote for trump is a vote for America to become a fascist led theocracy. We know nothing will change trump, his intentions or his cult.
Can Harris be brought around to do what Biden never will? At least with her (I hope) there’s a chance for change.
i hope so as well.
You know a vote for Trump would be so much worse for Palestine. Netanyahu is escalating right now to help Trump win in November. It is politically hazardous pre-election for Kamala Harris to antagonise the warmongers too much. This is a sad reality. Kamala has signalled what she thinks of them. She will have so much more ability to go toe to toe with Netanyahu once she defeats fascism at home. Voters who wish Biden was doing more and Harris was saying more need to be politically savvy enough to recognise this harsh reality and get her elected. If you think things couldn't be worse think again. Trump and Netanyahu are kindred spirits. Evil spirits. Arab Voters who vote for Trump rather than Harris because they are missed off with Biden are abandoning Palestine to a holocaust of fascism. Palestine's only hope lies with Kamala Harris. Give her time. Let her win.
So, it isn't clear that Trump would be worse on Palestine. But no question he'd be as bad, and I'm hoping against hope that Kamala might be a bit better than Biden.
And he says he'll bring out the tanks to put down protests. With Kamala, at least we can still protest. She'll ignore us, but at least she won't shoot us.
More like a vote for Trump, who is an Islamophobe and would like nothing better than to kill every Palestinian and turn Gaza into rubble--with the exception of beach-front property along the seaside. And Bibi wants Trump to win.
That's true but no more than would be a vote for Trump.
The Israeli / Palestinian conflict is not about a difference between Harris and Trump but about a position of US administrations ever since the creation of Israel by partitioning of Palestine into areas determined by the British, Germans, French and US.
Well written. Well argued. Completely true.
I wrote to both POTUS and the VP and said, effectively, the same thing, though I doubt as articulately. - Of course, I've had no response and nor did I expect one. I very much doubt my correspondence has been seen by other than a lowly underling, if at all.
I had great hopes that the 'era' of Trumpism was over when Biden was finally elected and the immediate aftermath of election denial settled at least moderately. That hope was very quickly lost.
I had a similar hope when Biden decided not to be stubborn and allow a peaceful transfer for nomination to Harris. That hope was very quickly also lost, for she has failed to prevent arms shipments to Israel and, presumably, also been supportive of sending a carrier group to the area and other military actions by the USA.
Undoubtedly - as many apologists for non-action keep pointing out to me - the administration is under heavy pressure from Zionist lobby groups, wealthy Jewish organisations and businesses as well as misguided individuals and groups who, either because of the massive sympathy for Jews engendered by their treatment in Europe during the 1930's and 1940's or belief in the lies of zionist propaganda or their suspicion of and dislike of Muslims, consider that the administration has no choice but to defend Israel to the hilt.
It isn't true. Nor is it even good for Israel.
The continued defense or ignoring of Israeli perfidious persecution and holding of Palestinians in the occupied territories for several decades does the US or other nations acting in that way, any credit. The US use of its Veto at the UN and failure to support actions to halt weapons supply and other support for Israel not only reduces the US's own credibility but demeans the status of the United Nations and its associated bodies.
The fact is that if this position continues, the US will be seen to be as bad as other autocratic and dictatorial regimes and war mongering nations who seek to terrorise and persecute ethnicities, religions or ideologies which they dislike.
Already the US, by its actions, is complicit in the crimes against humanity committed by Israel. Under US laws, if an individual aids and abets murder then that individual is considered as guilty as the individual directly committed the killing. Surely the US actions in supplying the very weapons used in the scorched earth actions of Israel and the killing of over 40,000 Palestinians and injuring, (often maiming) of over 100,000 Palestinians as well as the displacement of over a million residents of Gaza, makes it as guilty for these crimes as Israel - under its own logic.
The reality is that Biden could have stopped this.
The reality is that Harris could stop it if elected.
The reality is that both should be demanding its end now - no, not endless window-dressing visits and meetings but a DEMAND and ORDER if you will.
That demand should be accompanied and made real by the immediate withdrawal of US forces from the area, absolutely no further financial or military aid to Israel and the arrest of Netanyahu for crimes against humanity.
Israel ought also be forced to fund the rebuilding of Gaza, complete withdrawal from all occupied territories and adherence to the declarations of the United Nations and its associated bodies, particularly the ICC and the ICJ
If Harris and the Democrats want to be sure of election in November then this is what they need to do. The alternative is a Trump presidency which will ensure an even worse World order and even more abominable treatment without recourse for probably millions of disadvantaged and already persecuted populations.
Jo Biden and Kamala Harris can yet redeem themselves and preserve a positive legacy - but the time has almost run out.
I am embarrassed to be a citizen of the US because it does such horrid things overseas these days! But can Netanyahu stop it? Yes. Can Harris make Netanyahu stop--yes--absolutely yes! She is lying to Americans! Americans hate being lied to! She may win just because so many fear Trump will get in. That is not a good enough reason for me!
You are right that almost certainly Biden could stop Netanyahu. Certainly, immediately stopping any arms shipments or funding support, as well as withdrawing US forces from the region and no longer defending Israel, would very likely increase pressure on Netanyah considerably.
However, Netanyahu consistently states that Israel will continue the war even if it has to do it without external support. Whether it is capable of doing so, I don't know but I suspect that its chances would be severely limited, particularly if Iran and others increased their opposition.
As for your condemnation of Harris - it is unreasonable. As VP she cannot 'stop' the war. If elected she may be able to do as I've just suggested that Biden can do now. I don't believe that she is telling lies but simply stating what is true of the state of affairs in the US political system.
To suggest that she will win the election "just because so many fear Trump will get in" is disingenuous. There are many issues that concern US voters and a very clear difference in the approach to these of Trump and Harris. This is fact, not assumption. It is also why many will vote for Harris, though no-one yet can say with certainty who will actually win.
The reality is that the dominant ethos of US society and governmental policy, whether left or right, Republican or Democrat, is based on capitalism, materialism, profit over people and military supremacy that extends to control in as much of the World as is possible. As long as that ethos exists - and many ordinary Americans are conditioned into supporting it - there will be little likelihood of 'people before profit' or human care and compassion taking precedence over 'strategic pragmatism' and feeding the coffers of wealthy corporations and individuals.
So, when people such as yourself - and there are many - choose to denigrate and attack people such as myself, who understand and oppose the falsity, immorality and corruption of politics and politicians, you simply play into the hands of precisely those you oppose.
I, and those such as I, are not the enemy. I am as incensed, disturbed, alienated and angry about the genocidal atrocities being committed by Israel as are you. However, if we choose to argue among ourselves by failing to listen and understand and seeking to understand where and why we are not meeting one another, then we weaken our own stance and our chance that others will see the merit of our arguments.
So, I urge you to take a more considered and informed view of what others say and write and of the historical and contextual factors that have brought us here.
Take care. Stay safe. ☮️
That's exactly as I called it a while back - an inconvenient truth. Those of us who have been following Middle Eastern affairs, way before October 7th, 2023, knew that Bibi's rhetoric about defeating Hamas, was not the endgame. There are deep, dark ideological differences that manifest, ingrained in hatred... but for f*k's sake don't dare to mention the words genocide, apartheid or war crimes, or you're immediately dismissed as being anti-Semitic. I'm angry, frustrated and feeling complicit that we're not doing enough to stop this inhumane madness. 😢🤬😡
I am starting to wonder if Biden also wants Israel to go to war with Iran. It may be a little too convenient for Biden to be able to let Bibi do the dirty work for him and just keep saying, 'but I've told him he needs to be much more careful with civilian casualties!' Meaningless words at this point. How much longer till we are pulled into their forever war, in the name of terrorism.
You know the neocon Dems/ Biden-Harris war criminal administration will never stop supporting Israel’s genocide in Gaza/West Bank and now Lebanon, but you will still vote for Kamala Harris, right? Your moral compass is broken, buddy.
No, that's false logic. On the basis of historical evidence, all US administrations since the creation of Israel have supported Israel, regardless of their ideological persuasion or any differences on other policy.
In the US, one doesn't have to vote so that may or may not be positive. It does mean that one can do what Ostriches don't, (despite the common belief), and stick your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening or, at least, you have no opinion about it.
However, the Israeli - Palestinian conflict is not the only issue affecting US citizens and there are vast differences on many issues between Harris and Trump, not least: abortion, women's rights generally, morality, equity, isolationism v collaboration, corporate excess and influence v people, and much more.
So, voting for one or the other becomes extremely important, particularly when it is almost certain, if not certain, that Trump will continue to defend Israel just as all other US administations have done since its foundation.
“There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must take it because conscience tells him it is right.” — MLK
You can vote strategically, and then be an activist the whole rest of the year.
Yes, However my comment had nothing to do with voting strategically nor whether or when chooses to be an activist. My point is that a vote for either candidate on the basis of the US support for Israel will not alter it, therefore one can best use the franchise to support a candidate who will make positive change in other critically important issues.
I agree, but that was my point in relation to Biden & Harris, not those claiming a legitimacy for not voting for them on one selected issue, when that issue will not change regardless of who is elected, though many other issues will.
Again the "one issue" argument. If the "one issue" was human sacrifice of your own children for "the greater good" would it still be acceptable?
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”
— Archbishop Desmond Tutu
That is debatable, though I'm in general agreement with it. However, this quote, as wise as it may be, is not relevant to the comment I made for choosing 'not to vote' for someone is, by definition, not a neutral stance as neither is, choosing to not vote at all - that is simply avoiding a moral obligation.
Did I say I was not going to vote? I am voting for Jill Stein and Butch Ware because they’re the only candidates who are anti-genocide, pro-Palestinian, pro-people (worldwide), and pro-planet. Go Greens! 💚
I don't think that I alleged that you were 'not going to vote'. Neither have I any issue with you or anyone else voting for someone other than Trump or Harris - though there the mathematics of electoral systems shows how that can often produce a result very different to what one may want.
I would welcome seeing Green parties the World over gain government but the reality of the way most of our electoral systems are structured means that, right now, probably the best possible result is for Greens to gain some form of 'balance of power' and ability to influence some legislation.
My comments in this thread, however, have been in relation to the original post which was focused on the ability or otherwise of the Biden administration's ability to stop the current conflict between Israel and Palestinians and their supporters.
Ok got it. But I want to remind you that the Biden-Harris administration did have leverage it could have used to stop Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza, the occupied West Bank, and now Lebanon. However, they’ve refused to use that leverage. If Biden and Harris had stopped providing weapons/ammunition to Netanyahu, Gallant, and the IOF, Israel wouldn’t have been able to undertake its mass murder operation. In other words, they wouldn’t have been able to annihilate the Palestinian people (and Lebanese people) without America’s active support/participation.
Zizi-You are so correct about this guy! He doesn't or she doesn't have any moral compass or any morals or values whatsoever! You know what they say? Republicans fall in line but Democrats have to fall in love! If we continue to support the NEOCONS we will all lose our minds eventually! They are definitely aligned to the military industrial complex! I hate to say it folks--voting for Kamal is voting for NEOCONS -- NEOCONS ARE BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, BAD FOR OUR HEALTH, and GOOD FOR GENOCIDE! So keep it up--more people will die. Keep supporting these jerks, and you will be ruined economically! Look at North Carolina and next Florida will be burned by the Neocons, after a Hurricane because bombs are more important than people! Good luck!
If 'this guy' to whom you refer is me, then you have no understanding of who I am, what I have written, how I feel or what I support.
Even if the reference is to someone else, you offer nothing of substance but rather an accusative, often shouted, rant based on nothing of substance.
If you are informed at all, it certainly isn't evident in your post.
100%
If America's support for genocide surprises or shocks you, read some of our history and all will be made clear. It's who we are.
It is how some of us are. Of those who are, it also predominantly a result of conditioning by schooling, government policy, mainstream media reporting, zionist influence and propaganda, a created fear and dislike of Muslims and a culture of prejudice against any who differ from the fiction of 'White Superiority'.
I was just listening again to Ruha Benjamin commencement speech “Black faces in high places” which she goes exactly into this in our contemporary political context.
I know for a fact that I am a life-long Democrat, and that I will not be voting this fall for Kamala Harris this Fall! I know, I know! It is terrible, and we may get someone as horrid as Donald Trump in there, but I am so tired after 12 months of killing babies that I just couldn't justify voting for Hitler either! She is I suppose a little better than Trump, but she really doesn't give s shit about the environment either if she is allowing this genocide to continue like it is nothing! Don't tell me the US can't make Netanyahu stop! They can. She just doesn't want to!
Well, this is certainly one point of view - Jews have no right to live in Israel, which itself should not exist (...."Israel's occupation of Palestinian lands...."). The rhetoric about genocide might be projection - Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran all want to wipe Israel off the map.
OTOH, Netanyahu's a dick, the illegal settlements and Israeli actions in the West Bank should not have been tolerated by ANY US President (aid and arms should have been stopped), the response to Oct 7 was completely counter-productive (Israel needed to lean on prospective and real Arab government partners rather than bomb Gaza and kill so many people). War with Iran looks very possible - things are likely to get worse before they get better.
Of course, people who think Biden's failures here are terrible are going to be sorry if Trump is elected, because his rhetoric suggests that under a Trump Administration, he will support MORE bombing of Gaza (he thinks Jarad can develop Gazan beachfront property!) and probably even war with Iran.
After many years of earnest and devout work as an American foreign policy advisor, after serving on countless transnational corporate boards and investment councils, and after unusually intense introspection, I have at last arrived at a solution that I trust will be found in respectable circles to be quite laudable, if not altogether surprising. So let me judiciously advance “A Practical Policy,” which I expect will not be liable to the least objection, for easing the troubled situation of children in Palestine and Lebanon and beyond.
It is my well-reasoned suggestion that there be implemented a carefully regulated expansion of commercial trafficking in children worldwide — that is, the compassionate cannibalism of children and youth — closely monitored to ensure the dignity of all.
The time has long since come to officially support and expand the body parts trade, with its great potential of many corporate byproducts and fiscal derivatives heretofore unimagined. I have recently been advised by virtually every corporate and financial executive I’ve encountered throughout the American Empire that children of impoverished nations principally, though not solely, are to be understood in explicit terms as the next great global growth industry — children as a prolific cash crop.
An excellent Modest Proposal.
You are a fucking idiot.
Nope. Hamas can instantly stop this by turning over the hostages and surrendering. It's what a government must do for its people when it starts, then loses a war - since biblical times. Hitler stood “Strong", too, as his cities were reduced to the rubble we see in Gaza.
Hamas doesn't control West Bank which israel is attacking and occupying. Israel has now expanded the war to Lebanon, killing and displacing civilians. Bibi doesn't care about the hostages. If he did he'd accept the plan Biden proposed but that would mean ending the war and stepping down from power. These talking points no longer work, assuming they ever did.
They never did for they are and were ill considered and confused. In addition, they have never been real comment on the relative aspects, motives or intent for the war. Predominantly such comments are those of disrupters who have no valid opinion but simply like to disrupt and object rational discusson.
And Hamas doesn't give a damn about the West Bank. Bibi and his buttplugs are behaving like Nazis no question and that is indefensible and no question makes it very difficult to stand with Israel. Hamas doesn't want a 2 state solution. Hamas wants nothing less than Sharia Law From The River To The Sea. And Jews driven into said sea. And after that tomorrow the world as the Nazis used to say. Jews being occupiers and infidels are doubly cursed. Bibi will not step down but will Hamas? Not a mumbling word from you about that. There is no path to peace. There is no cease fire. A cease fire means nothing to Hamas except to break the cease fire at a time of their choosing. And make no mistake Hamas will never release all the hostages because they know damn well that if Israel has been coming down on them now with a ton of bricks it will be 100 tons if not for the hostages.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Hamas can "instantly stop this". On the contrary, Israel has demonstrated that it does not want to stop this but rather to escalate it as it has, in fact, already done.
The comparison of the Hamas action with Hitler's action is totally disingenuous.
Hamas was and is the legitimately elected government of the Palestinians and as they were and are living under occupation they have a right to take action to achieve their liberty. Their actions are thus no different from those of other groups such as the French underground, which fought and killed to get out from under Germany's occupation.
If your comparison has any validity it is the similarity between Hitler's actions and that of Netanyahu.
There clearly is evidence. Absent the atrocities of October 7 none of this would be happening. No one wants peace less than Hamas.
As Jonathan Swift said some 300 years ago: "It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." Your assertions are simplistic and false and cannot be evidenced.
Ok let's look at the evidence
October 6 ... no atrocities, no invasion
October 5 ... no atrocities, no invasion
October 4 ... no atrocities, no invasion
October 3 ... no atrocities, no invasion
October 2 ... no atrocities, no invasion
October 1 ... no atrocities, no invasion
September 30 ... no atrocities, no invasion
Are you processing?
All it takes is an Iranian Nuclear Embargo, A Lebanese Financial Embargo and your people will stop killing themselves. Great idea, get Biden to embargo Lebanon and invade Iran.
Roger--I am simply stating that I actually vote my values, as I can see that you do not vote your values! You would be better off voting your values, if you really feel you hate people of color because you are supposing that if I am "civilized and reasonable" then I am okay--I am not okay! People are killing people senselessly still now as we sit here in Gaza and Lebanon! No, I am not okay, and the US government is killing my friends and family! You cannot justify it in any way shape or form! I will bet when you were a boy and had real values, you probably heard about the holocaust and freaked out as many did, as I did! I wondered who would ever vote for Hitler? I wondered how could anyone actually support Adolf Hitler? It was so hard for me to fathom about my world around me! Now I know that people like you measure it and justify death and murder because you and Kamala Harris both think and believe you are the good guy; you are not the good guys--Israel are also not the good guys! You are far from it! That is why our world is blowing up because people like you do nothing but pontificate about how you are doing good by voting for a Sell-out carpetbagging, NEOCON, genocidal maniac -- yes she said she would not change her Mid-East Policy! They also proved she was complicit in the Famine--how can you vote for this woman? At least admit to yourself you are exactly like the people who lived in Germany! I am sure in your "White Settler Colonizing" mind you accepts you are the good guy!
https://michiganadvance.com/2024/10/08/abandon-harris-endorses-green-party-nominee-jill-stein/
“We are not choosing between a greater evil and a lesser evil… We are confronting two destructive forces: one currently overseeing a genocide and another equally committed to continuing it. Both are determined to see it through. We call on Muslim-Americans and all those who stand firmly against genocide to vote for the Green Party in 2024.” — Abandon Harris
I'd like to compose a list of prominent scholars, doctors, lawyers, academics, political figures, scientists, actors, musicians... actually anyone with a public platform, who has and/or is speaking up against this genocide. Feel free to add. 🙂
Angela Davis
https://truthout.org/articles/over-140-prominent-feminist-scholars-demand-ceasefire-end-to-occupation-in-gaza/
Wow, some of the names on this list - Cate Blanchett, Michael Stipe, Patti Smith, Tom Morello, Wanda Sykes...
https://www.artists4ceasefire.org/